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4/14/2014 12:11:34 PM

Riverduck
Riverduck
Posts: 2290
Well, looking at rpi this morning, and it looks like stanford, who has lost 16, and only won 12, has a better RPI then Oregon, who just went 5-0 last week, and notched their 27th win.
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4/14/2014 12:13:40 PM

Riverduck
Riverduck
Posts: 2290
And looking at the rest of their schedule, will not really play anyone higher than 24 from here on out. (OSU) Not looking good for Oregon right now.
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4/14/2014 12:51:36 PM

OregonStHomer
OregonStHomer
Posts: 53
If there was ever a time to point out how worthless the RPI is this weeks events and the corresponding rankings/rpi show how absurdly bad of a metric it is.

For example, Florida is the top of the RPI, with a 23-13 record, losing series to Miami, TA&M, Kentucky, and dropping 2 to Illinois. Virginia would barely host a SR at #8, Cal Poly with 5 losses is at #12. Maybe I am biased but perhaps most egregiously South Carolina and Oregon State, with nearly the same record, and Oregon State's SOS being slightly better end up at #2 and #24 respectively.

The RPI just needs to go.
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4/15/2014 10:24:01 AM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
OregonStHomer wrote:
If there was ever a time to point out how worthless the RPI is this weeks events and the corresponding rankings/rpi show how absurdly bad of a metric it is.

For example, Florida is the top of the RPI, with a 23-13 record, losing series to Miami, TA&M, Kentucky, and dropping 2 to Illinois. Virginia would barely host a SR at #8, Cal Poly with 5 losses is at #12. Maybe I am biased but perhaps most egregiously South Carolina and Oregon State, with nearly the same record, and Oregon State's SOS being slightly better end up at #2 and #24 respectively.

The RPI just needs to go.


So, what is the alternative? Human polls? They would have freaking Alabama hosting a Super Regional.

What exactly has Cal Poly done to be in the top 8? Their big accomplishment this year is going 2-1 against UC Santa Barbara.
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4/15/2014 8:09:44 PM

Dodger Matt
Dodger Matt
Posts: 2424
How do you feel about Louisiana-Lafayette?
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4/16/2014 7:24:45 AM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
Dodger Matt wrote:
How do you feel about Louisiana-Lafayette?


About the same as I feel about Cal Poly. It's all about winning games, but if major conference teams only have a few more losses against tougher schedules, then those smaller programs don't deserve national seeds.
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4/16/2014 10:34:53 AM

OregonStHomer
OregonStHomer
Posts: 53
Well the ISR is certainly better developed. It's also ironic that you bring up human polls, since the whole thing is decided by committee, not the RPI. Point being the RPI is worthless, because it is. It's gets things wrong more than it gets them right. There was a RPI shill who was a Miami fan on the old rivals board that I used to argue with way back, is that you?

As far as Cal Poly they've only won all their series, including wins over UCSB and UCLA. If you don't think Cal Poly isn't a top eight team then idk what to tell you. The whole conversation would be pointless.
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4/16/2014 11:11:50 AM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
OregonStHomer wrote:
Well the ISR is certainly better developed. It's also ironic that you bring up human polls, since the whole thing is decided by committee, not the RPI. Point being the RPI is worthless, because it is. It's gets things wrong more than it gets them right. There was a RPI shill who was a Miami fan on the old rivals board that I used to argue with way back, is that you?

As far as Cal Poly they've only won all their series, including wins over UCSB and UCLA. If you don't think Cal Poly isn't a top eight team then idk what to tell you. The whole conversation would be pointless.


I have no idea what an RPI shill looks like, because I'm certainly not proclaiming the RPI as anything special. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Predictably, you pick one computer program over the other, primarily because it supports the case for your team. What, specifically, is "better developed" about the ISR? I know it inside and out, and it is very simple. I would appreciate knowing what changes have been developed in it since last year to make it so much more developed than when it flopped on last year's top 8.

What is your proof that the RPI "gets things wrong"? Any more so than the ISR? Both systems are retrodictive, not predictive, so how do you determine which one is "right"? How do you know right now that Washington is better than Florida State? I certainly have no idea either way. And neither does either computer system. So if you're going to say that the RPI is wrong, be prepared to back it up. Bottom line, we have to use SOMETHING, and the only reason the ISR is in the conversation is because Boyd convinced you all that the ISR is right simply because west coast teams are treated better in the ISR. JPK has pointed out the flaws in the ISR. Have you ever read them?

Try this: list the top 8 RPI teams on selection day 2013 and compare those to the top 8 ISR teams on the same day. Interesting lists.

As for Cal Poly, I sure hope they have won all their series, because they have one series against anything remotely resembling a top 20 team. Winning a series against UCLA is the same as winning a series against FIU or Sam Houston State. That's how bad Cal Poly's schedule is. Forgive me if I don't want to see Super Regionals handed out for those kinds of schedules. Resorting to "if you don't think......" kind of stuff on the internet is so 2004. Give me some evidence for Cal Poly. And tell me which top 8 RPI team they should replace. We should have learned our lesson with San Diego.
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4/16/2014 2:19:48 PM

OpihiMan
OpihiMan
Posts: 1111
Cal Poly hosts Fullerton this weekend, we shall see...Cal Polys schedule is a bit better than ULL (93 vs 155), who not only plays pretty much no one...but also plays any good team on a Tuesday or Wednesday against weaker pitching (no wonder everyone raves about ULL offense...you play against the good teams crappy pitchers and bad teams pitchers). I don't know what I'd do with ULL if I was on the committee...you can't punish them for their conference...so I guess you'd have to give them a national seed but give them a tough regional and a tough potential super matchup? Their is no fair way to go about it...the good news is there is a 64 team tournament and everyone that deserves one does get a shot, the teams that get "snubbed" every year...I hate their whining. 64 teams make it, if you didn't get in you weren't that good to be that close to the cutoff.
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4/16/2014 3:53:59 PM

Florida Beaver
Florida Beaver
Posts: 1218
Yeah...RPI does have a lot to do with who hosts regionals. But if these teams are just "not that good" then they will not make it to the Supers. Hence no worries. And don't the "lesser" divisions deserve a shot at regionals as much as the "major" conferences? If there was really supposed to be that big a division in conferences, there wouldn't just be one baseball division for ALL the colleges. And I really don't care what kind of schedule you play. If you have not lost a series all year and have lost only 4 or 5 games all year, you DESERVE to be ranked high.

The point being, the goal is to reach , not post season only, Omaha and come home with the trophy. Even little guys deserve a chance. And being a Major conference team doesn't mean everything. How many trips has FSU made to Omaha? How many CWS trophies are in their trophy case?
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4/16/2014 4:17:55 PM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
Florida Beaver wrote:
Yeah...RPI does have a lot to do with who hosts regionals. But if these teams are just "not that good" then they will not make it to the Supers. Hence no worries. And don't the "lesser" divisions deserve a shot at regionals as much as the "major" conferences? If there was really supposed to be that big a division in conferences, there wouldn't just be one baseball division for ALL the colleges. And I really don't care what kind of schedule you play. If you have not lost a series all year and have lost only 4 or 5 games all year, you DESERVE to be ranked high.

The point being, the goal is to reach , not post season only, Omaha and come home with the trophy. Even little guys deserve a chance. And being a Major conference team doesn't mean everything. How many trips has FSU made to Omaha? How many CWS trophies are in their trophy case?


Being a major conference team doesn't mean everything? Here are the CWS finalists over the last 20 years:

SEC - 13 appearances
Pac-12 - 11 appearances
ACC - 7 appearances
Big 12 - 5 appearances
All other 28 conferences combined - 4 appearances

I would say that being in a major conference pretty much means everything.
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4/16/2014 6:34:40 PM

Florida Beaver
Florida Beaver
Posts: 1218
MiamiBaseball wrote:
Florida Beaver wrote:
Yeah...RPI does have a lot to do with who hosts regionals. But if these teams are just "not that good" then they will not make it to the Supers. Hence no worries. And don't the "lesser" divisions deserve a shot at regionals as much as the "major" conferences? If there was really supposed to be that big a division in conferences, there wouldn't just be one baseball division for ALL the colleges. And I really don't care what kind of schedule you play. If you have not lost a series all year and have lost only 4 or 5 games all year, you DESERVE to be ranked high.

The point being, the goal is to reach , not post season only, Omaha and come home with the trophy. Even little guys deserve a chance. And being a Major conference team doesn't mean everything. How many trips has FSU made to Omaha? How many CWS trophies are in their trophy case?


Being a major conference team doesn't mean everything? Here are the CWS finalists over the last 20 years:

SEC - 13 appearances
Pac-12 - 11 appearances
ACC - 7 appearances
Big 12 - 5 appearances
All other 28 conferences combined - 4 appearances

I would say that being in a major conference pretty much means everything.


So, are you saying that because they have only made the finals 4 times in 20 years they should not have the chance? Dude, you sound like a conference racist. Just come out and say it. "If your not in the big conferences, you don't matter"
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4/16/2014 9:09:58 PM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
Florida Beaver wrote:


So, are you saying that because they have only made the finals 4 times in 20 years they should not have the chance? Dude, you sound like a conference racist. Just come out and say it. "If your not in the big conferences, you don't matter"


Where did I say "they should not have the chance"? Did you see me write that they shouldn't be in the tournament? I said that I don't think a team with Cal Poly's schedule should be a national seed. Anything else I can clarify?
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4/16/2014 10:20:05 PM

Florida Beaver
Florida Beaver
Posts: 1218
MiamiBaseball wrote:
Florida Beaver wrote:


So, are you saying that because they have only made the finals 4 times in 20 years they should not have the chance? Dude, you sound like a conference racist. Just come out and say it. "If your not in the big conferences, you don't matter"


Where did I say "they should not have the chance"? Did you see me write that they shouldn't be in the tournament? I said that I don't think a team with Cal Poly's schedule should be a national seed. Anything else I can clarify?


So they can be in post season, just not as a national seed? Where is the "chance"? Are you saying CSF should not be allowed to be a national seed either? Because CSF and Cal Poly are in the same conference, and last I looked, CSF has as many CWS championships as you!

Some ACC teams have had more bites at the apple (33) and come up empty EVERY TIME. More than ANY other conference. So maybe the national seeds should not be given so much to the ACC because they can't win it as much as they should.


Then you start going back 20 years for CWS finalists. Why 20 years? There have only been national seeding for the last 15. So if you are arguing national seeding for Cal Poly, why are you including years where there was NO NATIONAL seeds? So, please...clarify THAT for my edification.

And quite frankly? The conference YOU belong in has a GRAND TOTAL of ONE, that's ONE, CWS championship. The Big West (Cal Poly is in the Big West) has twice as many as the ACC.

So your argument holds no water. Hell, Y'all lost to Bethume Cookman, Stetson, Maine, Florida Atlantic and UCF this year. With 12 losses, you're lucky to be in the top 25.
edited by Florida Beaver on 4/17/2014
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4/17/2014 6:50:31 AM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
So they can be in post season, just not as a national seed? Where is the "chance"? Are you saying CSF should not be allowed to be a national seed either? Because CSF and Cal Poly are in the same conference, and last I looked, CSF has as many CWS championships as you!

Try to stick with things that I actually write. I said that a team with Cal Poly's schedule should not be a national seed. Nowhere did I say that no one from that conference should ever be a national seed. CSF has earned their national seeds by challenging themselves in their non-conference schedules. CSF has traveled to Baylor, Oregon, and Wichita State this year while bringing in competent WSU and SF teams. Cal Poly's big road trip is to #200+ Seattle. Last year CSF played Nebraska, @TCU, Oregon, Texas A&M, and LBST. Cal Poly wastes our time with Seattle, Wagner, and Northern Illinois.

Some ACC teams have had more bites at the apple (33) and come up empty EVERY TIME. More than ANY other conference. So maybe the national seeds should not be given so much to the ACC because they can't win it as much as they should.


Being a national seed doesn't mean you are expected to win the whole thing. Getting to Omaha justifies a national seed.

Then you start going back 20 years for CWS finalists. Why 20 years? There have only been national seeding for the last 15. So if you are arguing national seeding for Cal Poly, why are you including years where there was NO NATIONAL seeds? So, please...clarify THAT for my edification.

Sure, I'll clarify that for you. Beyond 15 years ago, there were eight #1 seeds. They just weren't seeded 1-8. But there were certainly 8 #1 seeds. Not sure why that was so confusing. But please ask if you have more questions.

And quite frankly? The conference YOU belong in has a GRAND TOTAL of ONE, that's ONE, CWS championship. The Big West (Cal Poly is in the Big West) has twice as many as the ACC.

The school I graduated from has won the College World Series four times. Do you honestly think I care what they are doing at North Carolina and Virginia? You people can play the "conference pride" card. I happen to enjoy the fact that we have the elite history among our conference foes. They can continue to lose in Omaha for all I care.

So your argument holds no water. Hell, Y'all lost to Bethume Cookman, Stetson, Maine, Florida Atlantic and UCF this year. With 12 losses, you're lucky to be in the top 25.

What does that have to do with whether or not Cal Poly deserves a national seed? The mediocre, immature posters typically show their hand when they turn a normal debate into a bash session on the other guy's team. For your information, I haven't even looked up Oregon State baseball during this conversation, because they have nothing to do with the topic. I did, however, take a gander at Oregon State in US News & World Report, and that certainly helped to answer some questions about the level of discussion I've seen here.
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4/17/2014 10:18:25 AM

Florida Beaver
Florida Beaver
Posts: 1218
MiamiBaseball wrote:
So they can be in post season, just not as a national seed? Where is the "chance"? Are you saying CSF should not be allowed to be a national seed either? Because CSF and Cal Poly are in the same conference, and last I looked, CSF has as many CWS championships as you!

Try to stick with things that I actually write. I said that a team with Cal Poly's schedule should not be a national seed. Nowhere did I say that no one from that conference should ever be a national seed. CSF has earned their national seeds by challenging themselves in their non-conference schedules. CSF has traveled to Baylor, Oregon, and Wichita State this year while bringing in competent WSU and SF teams. Cal Poly's big road trip is to #200+ Seattle. Last year CSF played Nebraska, @TCU, Oregon, Texas A&M, and LBST. Cal Poly wastes our time with Seattle, Wagner, and Northern Illinois.

Some ACC teams have had more bites at the apple (33) and come up empty EVERY TIME. More than ANY other conference. So maybe the national seeds should not be given so much to the ACC because they can't win it as much as they should.


Being a national seed doesn't mean you are expected to win the whole thing. Getting to Omaha justifies a national seed.

Then you start going back 20 years for CWS finalists. Why 20 years? There have only been national seeding for the last 15. So if you are arguing national seeding for Cal Poly, why are you including years where there was NO NATIONAL seeds? So, please...clarify THAT for my edification.

Sure, I'll clarify that for you. Beyond 15 years ago, there were eight #1 seeds. They just weren't seeded 1-8. But there were certainly 8 #1 seeds. Not sure why that was so confusing. But please ask if you have more questions.

And quite frankly? The conference YOU belong in has a GRAND TOTAL of ONE, that's ONE, CWS championship. The Big West (Cal Poly is in the Big West) has twice as many as the ACC.

The school I graduated from has won the College World Series four times. Do you honestly think I care what they are doing at North Carolina and Virginia? You people can play the "conference pride" card. I happen to enjoy the fact that we have the elite history among our conference foes. They can continue to lose in Omaha for all I care.

So your argument holds no water. Hell, Y'all lost to Bethume Cookman, Stetson, Maine, Florida Atlantic and UCF this year. With 12 losses, you're lucky to be in the top 25.

What does that have to do with whether or not Cal Poly deserves a national seed? The mediocre, immature posters typically show their hand when they turn a normal debate into a bash session on the other guy's team. For your information, I haven't even looked up Oregon State baseball during this conversation, because they have nothing to do with the topic. I did, however, take a gander at Oregon State in US News & World Report, and that certainly helped to answer some questions about the level of discussion I've seen here.




What a lonely little life you must have. The level of discussion you give is about what I expect from you on here. You were just as much a disagreeable dweeb on rivals as you are here. You don't have discussions. All you want to do is argue. No matter how idiotic your point of view is, it always has to be the ONLY right answer and you will run it into the dirt to prove a point that has no basis. I'm done with you. NO, I am not giving up my point of contention, just giving up trying to point out a different prospective from yours. It really is true, it is better to be thought an idiot than try to argue with one. Go back to rivals MB. Just go.
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4/17/2014 10:37:21 AM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
Wow, that's a creative way of saying that you can't debate a single point I've made:

  • CSF is different from Cal Poly because they actually challenge themselves
  • Cal Poly's schedule is extremely weak and isn't worthy of a national seed
  • Getting to Omaha shows that you deserved a national seed, even if you don't win it all
  • We've always had eight #1 seeds
  • I don't care about what other teams in my conference are doing; I'd rather have all the titles myself
  • Miami's season has nothing to do with Cal Poly
Now if you can put on your big boy pants and quit running from valid, lucid points, we can actually discuss this. I'm guessing, though, that if it's not childish mud-slinging, you're not interested. You're not prepared for a baseball discussion that requires data, evidence, and accountability.
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4/17/2014 7:17:31 PM

Dodger Matt
Dodger Matt
Posts: 2424
MiamiBaseball wrote:
Getting to Omaha shows that you deserved a national seed, even if you don't win it all.

Not sure I agree with this. It implies the opposite is true, for one: that if you don't get to Omaha, then you didn't deserve a national seed. There have been plenty of seeds that failed that bar, and I don't think they were all undeserving.

But this Calvinist way of looking at it ignores the fact that getting a national seed also gives a team an advantage. For several years in a row plenty of people have complained that UNC's regionals and super regional matchups were the easiest in the field. So their reaching Omaha was not as difficult as most other seeds' feats.

And if Cal Poly and Lou-La are given national seeds and make it to the CWS, would you say then that they must've deserved them?
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4/17/2014 9:04:46 PM

MiamiBaseball
MiamiBaseball
Posts: 218
Thanks for the reply Matt. If La Laf and Cal Poly win a regional and then knock off another regional winner, then they will have proven their worth. I don't have anything against either one. I just don't think their opposition has allowed them to say they've earned it on the field.
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4/17/2014 10:49:24 PM

OpihiMan
OpihiMan
Posts: 1111
Cal Poly took Justin Garza to the shed tonight. Garza gave up 9 hits, 7 runs (4 earned) in 3.1 innings. Currently Cal Poly is up 8-0 outhitting CSF 15-3. Those are legit numbers...against a legit pitcher...against a legit team.
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