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Home » College Baseball Clubhouse » Any chance that both Rice and Texas A&M...

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5/29/2011 2:07:29 PM

Frogs Fanatic
Frogs Fanatic
Posts: 16
get national seeds Kendall? If TAMU wins Big 12 since FSU lost today.
Having 3 Texas Top 8 Seeds would justify the 4 non national west coast seeds a little more with 2 of them only having to travel to Texas as opposed to the East Coast. This assuming TCU gets matched up with either Rice or TAMU

#1 Virginia vs Oregon State
#2 Florida vs Clemson
#3 South Carolina vs Georgia Tech
#4 Vanderbilt vs Florida State
#5 Texas vs Cal State Fullerton
#6 North Carolina vs UCLA
#7 Texas A&M vs Arizona State
#8 Rice vs TCU
edited by Frogs Fanatic on 5/29/2011
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5/29/2011 2:09:19 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
In 1999, there were 3 national seeds from Texas (Baylor, Houston, A&M), just to provide historical precedence.

K, please don't tell me the Committee could boost CSF into a national seed to ensure one in the West?

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 2:33:53 PM

cmk4pres
cmk4pres
Posts: 51
I think its only going ot be 2. Texas and a&m

--
The University of Texas @ Omaha
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5/29/2011 2:52:50 PM

Kendall
Kendall
Administrator
Posts: 7490
I think there's a very legitimate chance all three Texas schools get natty seeds .... but I'm leaning toward one of them getting knocked out.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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5/29/2011 3:08:34 PM

Frogs Fanatic
Frogs Fanatic
Posts: 16
If A&M loses i assume FSU takes their spot and Rice gets a national seed?
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5/29/2011 3:20:07 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
If A&M loses, they are definitely out. If they win, it's a neck and neck hair-splitter with Rice for the final national seed.

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 4:22:03 PM

Kendall
Kendall
Administrator
Posts: 7490
weg313 wrote:
If A&M loses, they are definitely out. If they win, it's a neck and neck hair-splitter with Rice for the final national seed.


Not based off ANY inside information, but the more and more I think, and with a ton of West Coast hosts, I'm thinking the State of Texas gets three nationals, with FSU left out.

--
Kendall Rogers, College Baseball Managing Editor
Follow me on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/KendallRogersPG
Email me: mailto:kendall@perfectgame.org
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5/29/2011 4:52:58 PM

fsugeo
fsugeo
Posts: 39
Kendall wrote:
weg313 wrote:
If A&M loses, they are definitely out. If they win, it's a neck and neck hair-splitter with Rice for the final national seed.


Not based off ANY inside information, but the more and more I think, and with a ton of West Coast hosts, I'm thinking the State of Texas gets three nationals, with FSU left out.
It will be a shame if they start handing out national seeds based on geography.


I don't think FSU is a great team this year, but they have a top 8 resume and as such deserve a national seed.
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5/29/2011 4:59:55 PM

Frogs Fanatic
Frogs Fanatic
Posts: 16
I think Texas A&M has one in the bag. now its between Rice and FSU. Tossup
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5/29/2011 5:17:20 PM

fsugeo
fsugeo
Posts: 39
Frogs Fanatic wrote:
I think Texas A&M has one in the bag. now its between Rice and FSU. Tossup



I have to think FSU's 15 wins against the Top 25 of the RPI (and 12 of the 17 losses too) is a pretty big separator at this point.

I don't know if FSU would be Rice if they played this weekend, but I know over 60 games they have a better resume than Rice and really shouldn't even be in this discussion.
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5/29/2011 5:39:03 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
Frogs Fanatic wrote:
I think Texas A&M has one in the bag. now its between Rice and FSU. Tossup


Again, Froggie, how the heck does A&M have one in the bag, but Rice doesn't? I suggest you revisit the thread in which Kendall and I go back and forth on the comparable resumes. In a nutshell...

- The Aggies were co-Big12 regular season champs (but #2 seed as they lost to Texas) and won the Big 12 tourney.
- Rice was co-CUSA regular season champs (and #1 seed, having beaten USM on the road) and won the CUSA tourney

- A&M and Rice have essentially the same RPI (within .001 of each other), SoS, overall record and conference standing.

- A&M has the edge over Rice in record vs. Top 50/100
- Rice has the edge of the Aggies in record vs. Top 25 and road record

- Rice holds a 2-0 edge in head-to-head vs. A&M (one mid-weeker and one Saturday night showdown between aces), and the Aggies have yet to score a run against Rice pitching in 18 innings of action.

- Though the Big12 ranks ahead of C-USA in RPI (#3 vs. #5), the margin is not that great. In fact, C-USA have more Top 30 teams (4) than the Big 12 (3).

So again I ask you, please explain how the Aggies have a national seed "in the bag", but Rice does not; especially since the Big 12 will already have one national seed in Texas. Given how close the comparable Rice-A&M resumes are, why would the committee give a second national seed to the Big12 instead of giving one to C-USA, all other things equal (which they are)...and Rice is 2-0 in head-to-head.

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 5:42:28 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
fsugeo wrote:
Frogs Fanatic wrote:
I think Texas A&M has one in the bag. now its between Rice and FSU. Tossup



I have to think FSU's 15 wins against the Top 25 of the RPI (and 12 of the 17 losses too) is a pretty big separator at this point.

I don't know if FSU would be Rice if they played this weekend, but I know over 60 games they have a better resume than Rice and really shouldn't even be in this discussion.


Agreed on all points you mentioned above. HOWEVER, you left out one important point and criteria-- in-conference record and standing. Rice won both the regular season and conference tournament championship of the #5th ranked conference (virtually tied with the Pac-10); whereas, FSU finished 3rd during the regular season and 2nd in the tourney. Yes, the ACC is a better conference than C-USA, but not winning a share of the conference championship puts you at the mercy of the Selection Committee, regardless to what your RPI and record against the top 25/50/100 might be.

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 6:08:58 PM

fsugeo
fsugeo
Posts: 39
FSU actually finished with the 5th best record in the Regular Season (percentage points behind Miami) and it is the reason we are having this discussion. Had they finished second or third the idea of them being on the bubble would be crazy.

I have no problem with them "fighting" for the last two spots, but I if the team they are fighting is Rice I see it as a no-brainer to which team has a better resume.
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5/29/2011 6:15:41 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
fsugeo wrote:
FSU actually finished with the 5th best record in the Regular Season (percentage points behind Miami) and it is the reason we are having this discussion. Had they finished second or third the idea of them being on the bubble would be crazy.

I have no problem with them "fighting" for the last two spots, but I if the team they are fighting is Rice I see it as a no-brainer to which team has a better resume.


Again, why? Resume includes conference record and standing; in fact, that has always been weighed very, very heavily by the Committee. You cannot simply disregard conference standing and say FSU has the no-brainer superior resume. You don't.

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 6:23:19 PM

jkag89
jkag89
Posts: 18
While I'd be disappointed if the Aggies don't get a protected seed I won't be too disappointed as long as they don't pair the Texas Supers together. If they match A&M/Rice and TCU/Texas again but not S.Carolina/Clemson and Florida/FSU I'll be hopping mad.
edited by jkag89 on 5/29/2011
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5/29/2011 6:26:17 PM

fsugeo
fsugeo
Posts: 39
weg313 wrote:
fsugeo wrote:
FSU actually finished with the 5th best record in the Regular Season (percentage points behind Miami) and it is the reason we are having this discussion. Had they finished second or third the idea of them being on the bubble would be crazy.

I have no problem with them "fighting" for the last two spots, but I if the team they are fighting is Rice I see it as a no-brainer to which team has a better resume.


Again, why? Resume includes conference record and standing; in fact, that has always been weighed very, very heavily by the Committee. You cannot simply disregard conference standing and say FSU has the no-brainer superior resume. You don't.
Conference standing matters some years to the committee and not others. GT tied for the regular season title. They finished 2 games ahead of UNC and beat them head to head and yet UNC is considered a lock by everyone who predicts the field and GT isn't even mentioned after going 1-2 in the ACC.

I can see both GT and UNC getting in over FSU, but if GTs standing over UNC and that series win isn't taken into consideration for teams that play in the same conference, it has to be based on RPI. If where a team finishes in the ACC is not important to the committee when comparing to other ACC teams I can't see it being a big deal when looking at the a ACC team and a CUSA team.

I understand that Texas will probably get a national seed for winning the Big 12, but I don't think Rice gets one for winning CUSA.
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5/29/2011 6:30:29 PM

weg313
weg313
Posts: 134
fsugeo wrote:
weg313 wrote:
fsugeo wrote:
FSU actually finished with the 5th best record in the Regular Season (percentage points behind Miami) and it is the reason we are having this discussion. Had they finished second or third the idea of them being on the bubble would be crazy.

I have no problem with them "fighting" for the last two spots, but I if the team they are fighting is Rice I see it as a no-brainer to which team has a better resume.


Again, why? Resume includes conference record and standing; in fact, that has always been weighed very, very heavily by the Committee. You cannot simply disregard conference standing and say FSU has the no-brainer superior resume. You don't.
Conference standing matters some years to the committee and not others. GT tied for the regular season title. They finished 2 games ahead of UNC and beat them head to head and yet UNC is considered a lock by everyone who predicts the field and GT isn't even mentioned after going 1-2 in the ACC.

I can see both GT and UNC getting in over FSU, but if GTs standing over UNC and that series win isn't taken into consideration for teams that play in the same conference, it has to be based on RPI. If where a team finishes in the ACC is not important to the committee when comparing to other ACC teams I can't see it being a big deal when looking at the a ACC team and a CUSA team.

I understand that Texas will probably get a national seed for winning the Big 12, but I don't think Rice gets one for winning CUSA.


You do realize Rice has a better RPI, road record and far superior SoS than Texas. No question, FSU has the better RPI and record vs.top 25/50/100, but Rice's RPI is Top 10, as well. WE certainly deserve it far more than CSF and, as I've repeatedly pointed out, it would be a travesty for A&M to get a national seed as the second Big 12 national seed, and beat out Rce in the process.

--
In Wayne Graham we trust.
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5/29/2011 6:41:45 PM

fsugeo
fsugeo
Posts: 39
I understand the difference in winning the Big 12 and winning CUSA. One will pretty regularly get a national seed and the other not as often.

Again, I don't know if FSU would beat Rice this weekend, but over 60 games they have a better resume.
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5/29/2011 8:07:14 PM

cmk4pres
cmk4pres
Posts: 51
Other the UNC, Texas has the best record vs RPI 100. THem as a national seed is a no brainer.

--
The University of Texas @ Omaha
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5/29/2011 8:19:32 PM

jkag89
jkag89
Posts: 18
It is amazing how many teams can selectively present data that makes it a "no-brainer" that their team should be a national seed. I say that not to poke fun at you cmk but I've seen a number of arguments over the past week using various arguments that all come to the same conclusion.
edited by jkag89 on 5/29/2011
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